Local Leaders Speak Out on Toto Kaiyewu Case
Submitted by Brian Dolinar on June 26, 2009 - 10:20am
A press conference was held at the Independent Media Center on June 25, 2009, where community leaders spoke out about the police shooting of Toto Kaiyewu, a medical student from Carbondale. When Kaiyewu was passing through Villa Grove, a former “sundown town,” he was profiled by a local cop, stopped, and a chase ensued that ended with police gunning him down on I-74.
Those who addressed the media charged racial profiling. They included (from left to right) Patsy Howell, reading a statement from the Muslim American Society, Tracy Parsons, who called the actions of the authorities “deplorable,” Erma Bridgewater, long-time community activist, and Aaron Ammons of CU Citizens for Peace and Justice, who called for changes to make this “more than just another black male killed by the police.”
This response came the day after a coroner’s inquest ruled the death was a “justifiable homicide.” When independent media members moved to interview jurors after the event, they were interrupted by Vermilion County Coroner Peggy Johnson who told jurors they did not have to talk to the media. Public i journalist Brian Dolinar insisted that jurors have a right to talk to media and he was subsequently escorted out of the building by Sheriff Patrick Hartshorn. Asked if he would like to see a press badge, the Sheriff said, “I don’t care if you have a press badge.” In 2007, Dolinar was kicked out of a press conference by Champaign Police Chief R.T. Finney without saying a word.
A public screening of videos from the Villa Grove squad car and with officers involved will be held at the IMC in July.
Brian Dolinar, Brian Dolinar, Brian Dolinar.
Brian Dolinar apparently enjoys referring to himself in the third person. Apparently, nobody finds Public i journalist Brian Dolinar as interesting or newsworthy as Public i journalist Brian Dolinar.
Brian Dolinar continues to be dishonest in claiming that Toto Kaiyewu was stopped by the police. He wasn't. Kaiyewu stopped his car on his own, without the police pulling him over.
On the one hand, Brian Dolinar continues to repeat the fact that Villa Grove was a "sundown town", despite the fact that this policy ended before Toto Kaiyewu was even born, let alone killed. On the other hand, Brian Dolinar neglects to mention the fact that Kaiyewu lunged at the police officers with a machete. Which of these two facts would a person with more integrity than Brian Dolinar consider to be more relevant to this case?
Brian Dolinar apparently wants his readers to think that the police wrongfully stopped Kaiyewu (which they didn't, as they didn't stop him at all), and that Kaiyewu didn't do anything to trigger the shooting (which is why he doesn't tell you about the machete).
Brian Dolinar does not seem to be a particularly honest person, does he?
Anything White, especialy
Anything White, especialy cops, BAD, Brian Dolinar right all the time!!!!
Brian Has My Thanks
Uh, it doesn't matter what Toto was. Irregardless, Brian would have done a story. Race definitely plays a role in this case, so Brian is only being honest in pointing that out. No one's son should have been treated like that. Your ignorant and offensive comment shows the crude mentality that motivates you.
I love it how you just
I love it how you just arbitrarily state that race definitely played a role in the case. That's your skewed opinion and nothing else. Here's a question, would you all even care if the person killed that night would have been a white man?
LaLa Land
There's nothing to "love" about this case. There's no evidence that race could NOT have played a role in this case. What would you argue if Toto had been white? Likley the outcome would have been the same, given the lack of respect for life demonstrated that night by the officers involved? But it might just as well have been an incident that never got started.That's a negative that can't really be proven, but at least it makes more sense than asserting could not possibly have had anything to do with race.
Whatever color a person is, this should not have ended the way it did. That's clearly just as much a part of the problem as the racially-tinged implications of the incident. That it occurred in a state, in cities, and in counties where racially-biased outcomes regularly occur -- and are just as regularly denied by the authorities.
You're part of the problem if you want to insist that race was not a factor. In fact, the very tendency to categorically deny that race is a significant and continuing problem in Illinois law enforcement is part of the problem. Until this state of denial ends, progress is unlikely to happen and young, black men will continue to experience vastly disparate involvement in the "justice" system.
Why does racial disparity keep coming up in reporting at UC IMC? Despite extensive evidence of disparity, Illinois has made little progress in this area:
http://iltasc.wordpress.com/category/racial-disparity-prison/
The literature on racial disparity in law enfrcement is massive and, frankly, damning:
http://www.library.illinois.edu/afx/Criminal_Justice.htm
These disparities exist from cradle to grave, although Illinois has fortunately executed no one since it was proven that Illinois has far too regularly falsely convicted young black men in the past:
http://www.buildingblocksforyouth.org/illinois/mauer.html
http://www.abanet.org/irr/hr/fall97/deathpen.html
More links:
http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/~oliver/RACIAL/racelinks.htm
http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2008/09/reducing-racial.html
http://www.hrw.org/en/node/62236/section/1
Reporting by the IMC, including Brian Dolinar's, will continue, because the rest of the local press seems more interested in papering over this issue than in closely investigating persistent, racially disparate outcomes in the justice system:
http://www.ucimc.org/content/home-invasion-racial-disparities-swat-raids
Given the pattern of past comments like yours, I don't expect you to suddenly break out of your state of denial. That's no excuse for others and it is the reason why reporting here will continue. Get over it.
#1) Nobody would have cared
#1) Nobody would have cared if Toto would have been white. YOU are making race the issue when actually had Toto been white and made the same decisions he did that night, we would have seen the same results.
#2) Irregardless.........not a word
The Outrage Would Be Just the Same, No Matter What
Nonsense. Every citizen should be outraged that a mentally ill person was shot down under these circumstances, no matter what their race is. I deeply suspect the humanity and motivations of anyone making a claim that "Nobody would have cared if Toto would have been white."
Your saying that race could not possibly a factor is as nonsensiscal as your claiming that people here are saying it was the only factor, something which no one here has claimed. I'm glad that IMC is here to raise these issues, even if you prefer to think of it in terms of "There's nothing to see here, just move along."
Your preference for ignoring substantive research is as disturbing as your one-sided claims about what readers ought to think about this tragic and ultimately unnecessary incident.
Go ahead, put your quarters down for another copy of the NoNews-Gazette. It'll help with your high blood pressure and the grinding of your teeth I can hear from here. Then you'll just be getting the news that conforms to your prejudices.
Then you'll just be getting
Then you'll just be getting the news that conforms to your prejudices.
This coming from an IMC'er. LOL
Outrage.
"Every citizen should be outraged that a mentally ill person was shot down under these circumstances, no matter what their race is."
The curcumstance was self-defense. No, I do not find that outrageous. Whatsoever.
"Your saying that race could not possibly a factor is as nonsensiscal as your claiming that people here are saying it was the only factor, something which no one here has claimed."
Well, Brian never did come out at SAY it was the only factor. But read the article. He mentions that Villa Grove (like hundreds of other towns) was once a "sundown town". He does not mention that Kaiyewu attacked the officers with a deadly weapon. He CLEARLY thinks the town's former racism is more important than what actually happened that night.
"Your preference for ignoring substantive research is as disturbing as your one-sided claims about what readers ought to think about this tragic and ultimately unnecessary incident."
What "substantive research" are you talking about? Pointing out that racism still exists in the world? OK, well, I think everyone knows that. How does that prove that EVERY incident is somehow racially motivated?
You are right that the incident was unnecessary, though. Kaiyewu had no need to run from the police and then attack them. If he hadn't, none of this would have ever happened.
Statiscis and Individual Experience
You're just being hypocritical while tipping your hat at rather damning statistics that decribe the experience of racism in American society. The statistics decribe all too common indvidual expreience. You not really acknowledging racism as an issue when you claim that every time there is IMC reporting it doesn't apply to what is known with statistical certainty -- that African-Americans continue to experience racism at both a society-wide and personal levels. These two aspects of racism are connected. Denying it's so is not a credible response or valid critique of reporting here.
Don't pretend you care about ending racism when you really wouldn't lift a finger to do anything about it at the individual level.
?
How does that prove that EVERY incident is somehow racially motivated?"
No one here made such a claim, except those setting up straw men. That is as a ridiculous as claims that what happened could not be relevant to the racism you acknowledge exists or that this incident could not possibly be the result of any other factor than "justifiable homocide."
Strictly speaking, no they didn't.
But if that's not what they think, then why bring it up? If evidence that racism exists is NOT intended to be evidence that racism exists in THIS case, then what does it have to do with anything?
"That is as a ridiculous as claims that what happened could not be relevant to the racism you acknowledge exists"
No one here made such a claim, except those setting up straw men. Nobody said racism COULDN'T have been a factor. Just that Brian and everybody else here on this site have consistently and repeatedly failed to provide any evidence that it WAS. There IS evidence that Kaiyewu was swinging a machete at the officers. Go on illinoishomepage.com and watch the video for yourself.
In short. There's a lot of evidence that the officers were acting in self-defense IN THIS CASE. So far, there's none whatsoever that racism played a part IN THIS CASE. Talk about statistics all you like. I'm talking about this one case.
No one's son.
"Race definitely plays a role in this case, so Brian is only being honest in pointing that out."
Well, I'm glad we've given up on any need of evidence beyond the fact that the town used to have a racist policy. Beyond the "sundown town" thing, what evidence DO you or Brian have that race played a role?
Maybe that's the only evidence you need. Maybe former racist policies PROVE that everything that ever happens in that town, from that day forward, is racially motivated.
This is a very intersting notion, if you take it to its logical conclusion. It means that everything negative that ever happens to a black person south of the Mason-Dixon line is obviously motivated by race, as evidenced by the fact that slavery used to be legal where he lived. If a black man from Atlanta, GA goes to the store, and they're out of the kind of bread he likes? RACISM!
Even in the northern states, blacks weren't allowed to vote until after the Civil War. So if a black man in Madison, WI goes to pick up his newspaper and finds that the newspaper boy has tossed it into the bushes? RACISM!!!
We could go on for days like this. It could be fun, and I really don't think it would misrepresent the beliefs of a lot of people around here very much.
Seriously, though. Do you have any ACTUAL evidence that this case was motivated by race? I don't mean "evidence" like "Well, SOME police officers are racists!" or "This town has a racist past!". I mean actual, specific evidence that THIS SPECIFIC CASE was motivated at least as much by race as by Kaiyewu's actions. Or, like, even close to the same amount.
Moving on.
"No one's son should have been treated like that."
I agree. No one's son should have to have someone swing a machete at him, and then have his name dragged through the mud for defending himself. I couldn't agree more.
Or, maybe you were talking about someone else? Maybe you were talking about the parents of whoever Kaiyewu was planning on attacking with that machete? We'll never know who those parents are, of course, because their child is alive today because of the actions of the police that night. I suspect the parents of the person who was working at the gas station where Kaiyewu had been lurking in his car with his shiny new machete breathed an enormous sigh of relief the next time they saw their son or daughter, though.
It's nice to finally see some concern for these people on this site. I, for one, really appreciate it.
No One as Obsessed as You
Brian's just reporting what others in the community know and think. This article itself is just one example of that.
Knowing Brian, your depiction of him demonstrates that you have an opinion about him, but you don't know him at all. In fact, I'd say that you're projecting your own obsessions on him.
There's help for that, but you'll need to see a doctor about it.
The version I heard about BD
The version I heard about BD getting kicked out of the coroner's inquest was that a juror almost got into a fight with BD. Apparently this was after BD tried to question the juror on things. The juror told him to back of and BD did not. BD - any comment on that???
"we get a lot of Mexicans in our town"
According to Villa Grove Officer Adam Deckard, when asked why Texas plates were suspicious, he said, "Not to be predjudiced or anything, but we get a lot of Mexicans in our town."
Clearly, race was involved in this stop.
BD
For the love of Christ, Brian.
"Clearly, race was involved in this stop."
What stop?!? For (hopefully) the final time, they DIDN'T STOP HIM! He stopped himself!
Is it troubling that he thought a car with Texas plates is suspicious? A little. Although, since he did not act on that suspicion by stopping the car, it's hard to see what difference it makes.
Also, Kaiyewu is pretty clearly NOT Mexican. So that proves that the officer DIDN'T EVEN SEE KAIYEWU'S RACE before Kaiyewu chose to stop on his own!
How does the officer NOT KNOWING Kaiyewu's race somehow make it MORE obvious that the case was racially motivated?
And how does ANY of this change the fact that Kaiyewu chose to attack the officers with a machete? Hmm? You can ignore it all you like, but people aren't going to forget that that's what got him shot.
But you know, I absolutely KNEW you were going to do this. You were going to p ick through ALL the videotape and ALL the recordings and ALL the three-hundred-page report, and find the one or two things in it that make the officers look bad.
I didn't know you were going to keep ignoring the fact that Kaiyewu attacked the officers. I gave you more credit than that. It's a mistake I won't make again, believe me.
Don't feed the trolls
Amazing how this anonymous poster criticizes Brian who puts his name and byline on things yet this anonymous poster lacks the gravitas to put his own name beside his obvious trolling. Then again, if I wrote half of that crap, I would want my name as far away from it as I could.
Cops in CU are racist
lets be honest folks. the cops in this town are racist-anti semetic and homophobes
idiots with way too much authority.
According to Villa Grove
According to Villa Grove Officer Adam Deckard, when asked why Texas plates were suspicious, he said, "Not to be predjudiced or anything, but we get a lot of Mexicans in our town."
Clearly, race was involved in this stop.
BD
I understand that BD. But can you provide any commentary on what, if anything happened between you and one of the coroner's jurors and why?
Dolinar made comments toward
Dolinar made comments toward the juror implying that the juror was racist. His comments were not appreciated by the juror and the juror made it known to Dolinar that he should step back away from him. Dolinar did not and was removed from the courthouse. Dolinar cannot write a story from facts, so he must interject himself into a story to create one. Rule #1 for journalist. Don't become part of the story. So, Brian, will the Sheriff get a call from the ACLU like CPD did? Are you still attending their news conferences?
When the coroner Peggy
When the coroner Peggy Johnson stepped in to tell jurors they didn't have to speak to the media, I spoke up. I then asked the coroner about St. Po. Lisa Crowder's claim during the inquest that the Super Pantry worker said when interviewed she felt Toto was going to rob her. This is not in the police report written by Mat McCormick when he interviewed the Super Pantry worker a week later. When VG officer Adam Deckard was interviewed on video the night of the incident he said the Super Pantry worker had said there was nothing "suspicous" that night. I told members of the media about this, even gave them a copy of the police report, and it was not reported.
When I asked Peggy Johnson to explain this discrepancy, this is when the Sheriff asked me to leave.
One of the jurors who one of the TV stations had tried to interview, but was cut short by Peggy Johnson, was at the exit. I asked him if he felt all his questions were answered. He said yes and if I didn't like it I could go to Iran. I said I simply wanted freedom of the press. There was no near fight scene. At this point the Sherifff was breathing down my neck and I knew I could have been charged with trespassing for failing to leave.
But I really do like anon's version better.
BD
Thanks for answering my
Thanks for answering my question.
Hey Brian... did you read
Hey Brian... did you read todays NG in which the clerk thought the Toto was acting weird? Did you read the part where the witness thought that Toto was going to run over the VG officer? Read the part about his mental health issues? Read the part where he lunged at Officers from a distance of 12 feet? Read any of that?
Yep. Did you read anything by
Yep.
Did you read anything by the NG's Jim Dey addressing racial profiling?
Nope.
Good point.
We didn't read it from him. We DID read it from you, before anyone even knew any of the facts.
Perhaps we didn't read it from him because "racial profiling" tends to be when the cops pull someone over because of his race. In this case, they didn't pull him over at all, and didn't even know what race he was.
So, yeah. Good job, Brian.
"Did you read anything by the
"Did you read anything by the NG's Jim Dey addressing racial profiling?"
Exactly, because there was no evidence of racial profiling in this incident. Just because you can say something over and over again does not begin to make it true.
I also like how Dey did not interject himself into the story and then write about it in the third person.
Merely Annoying vs Anonymous
Dude,
Just get over yourself. You are seriously ignorant about Indymedia. Here's some reading to get up to pace:
http://docs.indymedia.org/view/Global/ImcEssayCollection
Your "allegations" are irrelevant.
Mr. Dey is not a disinterested observer.
Mr. Dolinar is being obvious about his own biases.
It would be good if Mr. Dey was more upfront about his own POV, because it's obvious he has one -- if you're paying attention.
As for your constant bleating about BD, it only demonstrates you own biases. You are not a disinterested observer. Why don't you tell us your own biases...?
Yeah, I thought so.
Well, dude.
How exactly is Brian being honest about his own biases? When he writes articles, does he come out and say "Granted, I will always and everywhere believe that the police are wrong, but trust me, my article is still worth reading."? Does he say "I am more concerned about stirring up anti-police sentiment than I am at telling the truth, but you should still read this."?
No, dude, he does not. If he DID do that in front of every essay he wrote, then yes, I would agree that he is being honest about his biases. He's still PRETENDING to be a real journalist, just telling us what really happened.
As for my biases, I'm biased to think that BRIAN'S biases are so hilariously overblown as to make him not worth reading at all, except for occasional entertainment value. Want a good example? How about this for a stroll down memory lane?
http://www.ucimc.org/node/1377#comment-1737
Yep. That's right. The good old "death squad" comment. One of my faves. Now you really mean to tell me that Dey's biases are anywhere even CLOSE to as pathologically dumb as Brian's?
Exactly who are these
Exactly who are these "leaders" Are the members of the school board, City Councils, State House, Congress? How does one "become a leader" under your definition of leader?
How exactly is this racially
How exactly is this racially profilling when the young man made a vehicle code violation and the officer made a vehicle stop? Where is the racial profiling. Are you saying that Officers should have ignored him all together, and just driven around him? Or go the other way? Is that what you want your officers to do? Just ignore things that seem to be suspecious?
A-Z
BE, peace.
This is Aaron Ammons, one of the "leaders" present at the press conference. I don't know what it takes to be deemed a leader in a community, but I do believe that anyone who is doing honest work and exhibits correct thinking can offer leadership to all people.
I often think about the perceptions that many have of our activism and the stands we have taken in opposition to decisions made by elected officials, police officers, judges, pastors, present and past "leaders" of the community. I know there are those who say they agree and those who say they disagree with our reporting, our marches, demonstrations, etc. I have learned that there is a price to be paid whenever you take a stand one way or the other and that is fine with me because I believe that I am doing the right thing.
I know that I have made mistakes in the past and will probably make some more and I am willing to acknowledge my errors and apologize for violating anyone else's dignity. This is all that I/we are ultimately asking for from those who are selected and elected to serve the people. Is it feasible to expect that the officers involved in the shooting death of Toto be examined, researched and exposed to the public as Toto was? Is this an unreasonable request, if so, why?
We don't teach citizens to: get out of their cars when stopped by the police, flee from the police (unless they are trying to hurt you unjustly), yield weapons or make aggressive motions toward officers. Can we ask any probing questions of our departments without those questions being viewed as"anti-police"?
Anon you have obviously read some of the reports, have you also watched the video of the "stop"? I say stop because although one can offer that Toto stopped his car first, it only becomes a traffic stop when officer Deckard turns on his flashers. Can we reason together and conclude, based on police procedure and common experiences, that when an officer drives past your car 5-6 times, pulls up closely behind you at a stop sign, manually engages his squad cam and races to catch up with you after turning at the stop sign, that he intends to stop you?
I thought you made an excellent point when you pointed out that Deckard related the Texas plates to Mexicans not Africans, therefore he couldn't have known that it was Toto in the car. The one thing that is also apparent in the statement is that race is infused by officer Deckard, not us. You would also know by now that ICE raided a place in Villa Grove looking for illegal immigrants. Can we agree that officer Deckard's suspicion of Mexicans played a part in Toto's death?
In relationship to good police work. After speaking to several officers in the cities since this tragedy, I wonder, like them, why didn't Deckard just pull into the lot and ask if everything was o.k. if he was soo concerned? Could he have just let Toto drive off and radio ahead for support later, put a warrant out for his arrest, pursued at a distance, I guess I'm wondering why a vehicle code violation had to turn into a medium speed chase.
Lastly, I hurt for the Kaiyewu family for the loss of their son and brother, I feel for officers and the families of the officers who were pulled (one officer volunteered to get in this mess but that's another story) into this horrible situation because of what amounts to overzealous policing. (Deckard reported to Metcad that he had been assaulted, the video revealed the truth)
This was a bloody killing that has traumatized a family, a community and some officers and it could have been avoided with a little more patience and professionalism on the part of officer Deckard. I don't want to blame him for the whole thing, because there is more to it, Toto and the other officers could have behaved differently, I'm just reporting that the initiation is as important as the conclusion. Do you agree?
BE, just.
Z to A
Hi, Aaron. It's good to finally talk to you. You seem like a pretty honest guy, so I'm going to treat you like that: like an honest person who simply disagrees with me, and not just another Brian. Please don't make me regret this decision.
I also want to apologize in advance for how long this is going to be. But you raise a lot of issues, and I think this is as good a time as any to lay out my personal view of things.
"Is it feasible to expect that the officers involved in the shooting death of Toto be examined, researched and exposed to the public as Toto was? Is this an unreasonable request, if so, why?"
Yeah, of course. Examine, research, whatever. To your heart's content. That's not unreasonable at all. It's not really what I'm talking about either. What I'm talking about is making wild accusations (for example, suggesting that the Champaign police are forming racist death squads) and publishing half-cocked theories about the police based on no evidence at all. That's really not reasonable. Sorry.
"We don't teach citizens to: get out of their cars when stopped by the police, flee from the police (unless they are trying to hurt you unjustly), yield weapons or make aggressive motions toward officers. "
Well, you may not think you're teaching people that. But what message are you really sending to people? Remember that kid in Douglass Park a couple years ago? That one who got stopped by the police, refused to stop, then made a move to hit the officer when she grabbed his arm? The one who got pepper sprayed? Instead of treating this kid like a stupid kid who REALLY, REALLY should have just stopped and listened to the officer, you guys treated him like some kind of freedom fighter, and the police were just interfering with his god-given right to walk through a park after it closed and ignore the police. You can say you don't teach people to resist the police. But when you lionize a kid that does exactly that, what message do you really send? That's just one example. The Kaiyewu case is another. Kaiyewu does pretty much every possible thing a person can do wrong in an interaction with the police, and here you are, blaming everyone BUT him for what happened that night. What are you REALLY teaching people?"Anon you have obviously read some of the reports, have you also watched the video of the "stop"?"
Yep, sure have. Everyone can. It's posted at http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/suspect-timeline/18935326/
I wonder why the IMC hasn't put this video online, since they apparently want everyone to see it. I mean, they're planning on showing it to the public sometime this month. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to put it online, instead of just showing it one time in one building (probably during the middle of the day on a weekday), when most people are never going to get to see it?
"I say stop because although one can offer that Toto stopped his car first, it only becomes a traffic stop when officer Deckard turns on his flashers. Can we reason together and conclude, based on police procedure and common experiences, that when an officer drives past your car 5-6 times, pulls up closely behind you at a stop sign, manually engages his squad cam and races to catch up with you after turning at the stop sign, that he intends to stop you?"
That sort of depends on a couple of things. First of all, is that what really happened? Did he really circle around five or six times? Everything I've read says that the officer saw him at the gas station, then, when he was coming back around on his rounds, saw Kaiyewu again, which is when Kaiyewu pulled out. So that's twice. Now, I haven't had access to the entire 300-page report, so it's possible that you legitimately know something I don't. It's also possible you're trying to pull a Dolinar here. Which is it? Did he really circle around the parking lot five or six times?
As far as catching up to him at a stop sign, that seems pretty obvious. Kaiyewu had to stop. The officer behind him didn't. So of course the cop was going to catch up to him. Racing to catch up to him after he turns? Well, from the video, you can see that the officer was pretty far behind Kaiyewu when Kaiyewu stopped, so he must not have done a very good job of racing to catch up. Again, this may be another example of you genuinely knowing something I don't. If so, I'd like you to quote what it is in the report that says he was racing to catch up to him.
So, basically, you have a situation where a police officer followed a guy for a little while after the guy pulls out in front of him. Based on that, no, I can't say for sure that the officer was intending to pull him over. You know why? Because that happens to me all the time. Do you drive a car? Maybe it's just me, but at least once every couple of weeks, I find a police car behind me, and he follows me for a little bit. Maybe he's suspicious of me for some reason, or maybe he just happens to be going the same way I am. I've never been pulled over in a situation like that though, so obviously, the officer isn't intending to pull me over.
Even if he was, I wouldn't stop right in the middle of the street, like Kaiyewu did.
"I thought you made an excellent point when you pointed out that Deckard related the Texas plates to Mexicans not Africans, therefore he couldn't have known that it was Toto in the car. The one thing that is also apparent in the statement is that race is infused by officer Deckard, not us."
Well, no. It wasn't. Mexico isn't a race, it's a country. A country that, as you point out, is the source of a lot of the illegal immigrants in the United States. Now, I'm sure you disagree with America's immigration laws, but the law is the law, and it is the job of the police to enforce the laws. However you look at it, it's still not a race thing.
That's not really the issue anyway, though. Because when did you and Brian find out about Deckard's suspicion that Kaiyewu was Mexican? It had to have happened AFTER Brian got the documents, right? Meaning that Brian DID NOT KNOW about it when he wrote his article accusing the police of racial profiling. Since Deckard's statements about Mexicans is the only thing even RESEMBLING evidence that this was a racial profiling case, and since Brian didn't know about that at the time, that means that Brian wrote his little essay thinking that the police pulled Kaiyewu over for being black. Which, not only is there no evidence for, but it turns out not to have even been the case. Is making that sort of accusation based on no evidence whatsoever something that a person of integrity would do? Wouldn't a person with a conscience come back and admit he was wrong? Maybe even apologize? You know Brian, so you tell me if you think he's going to do that. He hasn't yet. What does this tell you about our old pal Brian?
"Can we agree that officer Deckard's suspicion of Mexicans played a part in Toto's death?"
If at all, a tiny, tiny little bit. Much more important parts are Kaiyewu's assaulting and fleeing from the police, and eventual use of a deadly weapon to threaten them. I doubt Deckard's suspicions of Kaiyewu's nationality amount to much of anything, since, as I said before, Kaiyewu stopped his car in the middle of the street, and immediately began acting in a manner ANYONE would find suspicious.
Let's not forget, also, that Kaiyewu was apparently mentally unbalanced, had just bought a machete, and was apparently not afraid to use it. Can we agree that, overall, it's probably a GOOD thing that the officer was suspicious of him?
"In relationship to good police work. After speaking to several officers in the cities since this tragedy, I wonder, like them, why didn't Deckard just pull into the lot and ask if everything was o.k. if he was soo concerned?"
That depends. If Deckard only circled around the parking lot twice, I'd say that he didn't just pull into the lot and ask if everything was OK because he didn't have a chance to. Kaiyewu pulled out of the lot before Deckard COULD go up to him and talk to him. Besides, if he HAD done this, and Kaiyewu had reacted the way he did when he saw Deckard coming up to him, and everything had turned out the way it did in real life, don't you think the IMC would be saying "Why did the officer come up to a man who was sitting in the parking lot, minding his own business? Why couldn't he have just left him alone? What's so suspicious about a black man sitting in his car in a gas station parking lot?". We'd be right back where we are now.
"Could he have just let Toto drive off and radio ahead for support later, put a warrant out for his arrest, pursued at a distance, I guess I'm wondering why a vehicle code violation had to turn into a medium speed chase."
In my admittedly unexpert opinion, he probably couldn't have done that. Why did they chase him? Well, obviously, I don't know what was going through the officer's mind at the time. I can think of a few things about this worth pointing out, though.
* He assaulted officer Deckard (see below for detail). That right there seems like enough of a reason to chase him.
* Anyone who is acting as erratically and violently as Kaiyewu is obviously not making good decisions. This makes him a danger to other motorists. For all Deckard knew, Kaiyewu was high on some kind of drug. Or maybe he just wasn't in control of his mental faculties. Either way, could Deckard really just let him keep on driving, putting everyone else on the road that night at risk?
* Put out a warrant for whose arrest? In the video, Kaiyewu doesn't give the officer any kind of identification. How did Deckard know who to put the warrant out for? "A black guy in a Camry"? What, do you want MORE racial profiling? I don't know if he would have the vehicle registration information available, since it was registered in Texas, but even if he did look it up, it's still only good if we assume the vehicle was registered in the driver's name. Since Kaiyewu's dad bought the car for him, there's a pretty good chance it wasn't.
* What good would it really have done to put out a warrant anyway? I mean, he didn't stop for one cop. What makes you think he's going to stop for the cop who comes to arrest him for not stopping?
* What DIFFERENCE would it have made if they'd put out some kind of all-points bulletin? Kaiyewu STILL would have wound up getting chased by the police, if they'd seen him. What does it matter if it's the original cop or a different one chasing him? And as fate would have it, it's probably a GOOD thing Deckard was there the whole time, wasn't it? I mean, his car had a camera. Most of the other cop cars didn't. If Deckard hadn't been there, we wouldn't have the video evidence of Kaiyewu swinging the machete. I'm sure the IMC wouldn't want THAT to go unrecorded, would it?
* His plates were from Texas. Unless Kaiyewu told him he was residing in Illinois, there's a good chance Deckard thought he would just get away. In Villa Grove, you're less than an hour away from the Indiana border. If Kaiyewu was just passing through Illinois, he could have passed into Indiana and never been seen again before any other officers caught up to him.
* In general, people who run from the police do so for a reason. One major reason is that they have warrants out for their arrest, and don't want to go to jail. That's not the case here, so, from the officer's point of view, it was probably for the other major reason: there's something in the car the driver doesn't want you to see. Suppose a guy has just robbed a bank, and has a bag full of money in his car. Or say he's just stabbed someone and has a bloody knife in his glove compartment. If he runs from the cops, and they don't chase him, then that gives the guy plenty of time to ditch that evidence. Then another killer or bank robber goes free. Is that what you want? It turns out that this didn't end up being the case, but I still don't think it's unreasonable for the officer to suspect that it was.
And on and on. All of this continues to leave out the obvious fact that Kaiyewu was a mentally-unbalanced person who had just bought a machete. What are you upset about? The fact that the officer's hunch turned out to be RIGHT? Do you think things would be a lot better off, on balance, if the cops had just let Kaiyewu go?
"Lastly, I hurt for the Kaiyewu family for the loss of their son and brother, I feel for officers and the families of the officers who were pulled (one officer volunteered to get in this mess but that's another story) into this horrible situation because of what amounts to overzealous policing. (Deckard reported to Metcad that he had been assaulted, the video revealed the truth) "
Ahh, yes. The video. And yes, it DOES reveal the truth. That's why I'm a little surprised you would bring it up. So, without further ado, let's go to the videotape!
The first part of the video I linked to is Kaiyewu buying his machete (still haven't heard a very good answer from the IMC as to what peaceful, law-abiding purpose he was planning on using that machete for, by the way). The second is Kaiyewu walking around in the gas station.
The cruiser video is when it starts to get good, at around 1:08. The video starts off with Kaiyewu already stopped in the middle of the street. The officer is pretty far behind him, at this point. At least the length of a city block. Cop pulls up, turns on his lights. Kaiyewu gets out of his car.
Then we can't really see much except for officer Deckard's back for awhile. The two of them actually walk to the edge of the camera's view there for awhile, so it's hard to say what's going on. But notice at around 3:09. See how Kaiyewu's left arm jerks, right before he starts to walk back to his car? Does he hit the officer or shove him? Or is it nothing? It's hard to say. So I'm not going to count that as an assault, even though it certainly could have been.
Then Kaiyewu goes to his car. Now. See when Kaiyewu is getting into his car? Officer Deckard follows him, to try to stop him. See those two swings Kaiyewu takes at officer Deckard at around 3:16? That's assault. Kaiyewu assaulted him. Right there. On video. It's about as clear as anything can be. You're actually not allowed to try to hit police officers. Really, you shouldn't hit anybody, but I think most people would agree, trying to hit a police officer is a really bad idea.
Then he drives off, and the officer chases after him on foot. But what's this? Notice those bright lights at around 3:28? Those are Kaiyewu's brake lights. He's stopping his car. See how the lights get brighter? It looks to me like those are his backup lights. This could just be a trick of the light, of course, and obviously it's too far away and too dark to really be able to tell if his car moves backwards a few feet or not. But we have an independent witness who says she saw Kaiyewu trying to back over the cop. Granted, this is not ironclad proof that he DID try to back over the officer. But you seem to think the video RULES OUT the possibility that Kaiyewu attacked the officer and tried to back over him. Quite simply, you are wrong.
Now, if you were Brian, I'd say that you are just lying, based on the contradictions between what you said and the video evidence that I know you've seen. However, like I promised, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that you simply didn't know that it's against the law to try to hit a police officer. But it is, and that's pretty much what started the police chase.
"This was a bloody killing that has traumatized a family, a community and some officers and it could have been avoided with a little more patience and professionalism on the part of officer Deckard."
How? I'm sure you have a better idea of what officer Deckard should have done in response to being struck at, and then having a guy try to back over him. Apart from just letting Kaiyewu go to endanger the public in peace, what do you suggest?
"I don't want to blame him for the whole thing, because there is more to it, Toto and the other officers could have behaved differently,"
Toto "could have behaved differently"?!? That's pretty much the understatement of the year, don't you think? The fact is, at EVERY SINGLE STEP OF THE WAY, it was Kaiyewu's actions that determined what happened. Here's a list of things Kaiyewu could have done differently:
- Stop his car in the middle of the street.
- Get out of his car.
- Assault a police officer.
- Try to run over the police officer.
- Run from the police.
- Get out his machete when he's finally stopped.
- Lunge at the police with his machete.
There ARE a couple of things Deckard could have done differently. He could have:
- Just driven past the guy who stopped his car in the middle of the street and ignored him.
- Not attempted to apprehend the guy who just assaulted him.
Maybe Deckard is no angel. I really don't know. But the fact is, Kaiyewu is the one responsible for the way things turned out that night. And I'll grant you that, perhaps, his mental illness made it so that he couldn't really be held responsible. But the point is, Kaiyewu didn't really leave the police a whole lot of choice but to react the way they did.
"I'm just reporting that the initiation is as important as the conclusion. Do you agree?"
Not really. If anyone else had stopped Kaiyewu for any other reason, I imagine it would have turned out pretty much like this. Did Kaiyewu KNOW that Deckard thought he was Mexican when he took those swings at him? I really doubt it, so why do you think THAT'S what made him react the way he did? Did you see anything on the video that makes you think Deckard provoked him? I didn't. So what makes you think the exact circumstances of the encounter (let alone Deckard's unspoken thoughts) really made much of a difference? If he had gotten stopped for running a red light, do you think he would have reacted differently? Or suppose an officer had just come into the gas station parking lot to check on him. You think that would have made him any less paranoid? I don't really see why it would have. So, I imagine that pretty much any interaction Kaiyewu had with the police that night probably would have turned out more or less the same.
Allow me to take a guess as to what happened over at IMC Headquarters. Brian heard that a black guy got shot by the police. Immediately, and with no real information, he decided that the whole thing was about race, and the police were entirely at fault. Subsequent to that, nothing that Brian sees, hears, or reads is going to change his mind. His mind is already made up. But you don't have to be like that. You can admit your initial suspicions were wrong. It's OK. It's better to be honest and admit you were wrong than it is to keep dragging this out for the most tenuous of reasons. Nobody's going to hold it against you. So come on. Don't be a Dolinar.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write out your view of things. I really look forward to your response.
Crisis training can help officers de-escalate situation
This letter to the editor appeared in the News-Gazette:
Crisis training can help officers de-escalate situation Monday July 13, 2009I was grateful for the July 5 article by Jim Dey about the young man with mental illness who was killed April 23 on I-74. I felt overwhelming sadness, however, because it is such a tragedy. A bright young man is dead and there are many left to mourn, including the officers involved in this tragedy and those of us who did not know Oluwatofunmi Kaiyewu.
Having enormous respect for officers of the law, I believe that the men involved were doing what they felt was right at the time. There is something called Crisis Intervention Training that has been offered here in Champaign County a few times. CIT is a 40-hour class to teach how to respond in a situation in which someone with mental illness is involved (most police get about four hours of training) and deals with how to recognize it and not confuse it with a behavior caused by drugs or alcohol, what questions to ask, and most importantly, how to de-escalate the situation.
The officers are given a CIT pin to wear for people with mental illness to recognize and when crisis calls are made, the operator can be informed to send a CIT trained officer. It is offered to all officers in the area, but they have to be excused from regular duty for the week of training, and that has been the biggest barrier.
My affiliate, National Alliance on Mental Illness-Champaign County, has been very supportive of this training and has encouraged all towns to send officers to be trained.
It is my hope that this tragedy will encourage more police chiefs to send officers to be trained, because future incidents can be prevented.
Treatment for mental illness works, most people with it are functioning, productive citizens.
FANNIE GRIFFIN, MSW
Vice-President NAMI-CC
Champaign
A-Z I completely agree with
A-Z I completely agree with everything you wrote. The initiation is as important as the conclusion. Many refer to the car chase, the machete, the so called assault, but what is just as important is the initation. We don't know what words were exchanged between Adam Deckard and Toto. We don't know why Toto drove off that night, and we don't know what caused Toto to so call assault the police. The initiation is just as imporant to the whole situation, because without that initial stop none of this would have occured. No I am in no way agreeing with Toto's action, but I do agree other measures could have been taken.
No the officers did not know at the time that Toto was mentally ill, but trained officers might have. Trained officers might have actually considered that they were not dealing with a stable person and instead of trying to escalate the situation, would have found other means to deal with the event. Obviously Toto did not do anything wrong in the convenient store, nor did he do anything wrong in the parking lot, or while driving. So when his behavior became "suspicious" perhaps an officer trained to deal with mentally unstable individuals would have picked up on that and have found a more appropriate response. What about keying in the license plate number to find out the owner of the vehicle; which would then lead to perhaps Toto or his parents, then notifying the parents to get a mental history or if not pulling records to find that out.
Also I am sure everyone is well aware that Mexico is a country. We are also aware that Mexicans are those who come from Mexico. I'm not sure why it was really relevant to talk down to others and act like nobody knew Mexico was a country. But in any case I would like to inform officers in IL, not all drivers with a TX license plate are Mexicans. Would the police tail a car from Washington state, thinking that the person might be Canadian? Would they tail a car with a CA license plate? I'm not really sure how big or small Urbana, Villa Grove, or any of the other surrounding cities are, but to just find a car suspicious b/c of where the car is from and assume the race of the individual in the car does seem a little racist.
I'm not sure if the same thing would have happened in Chicago; if a car with a TX license plate would have been deemed suspicious because the cop thought they were Mexican.
The So-Called Death Of Toto Kaiyewu
This is really getting pitiful. So I guess this discussion is now going to focus on the issue of Crisis Intervention Training. Honestly, what would you guys do if you didn't have Brian to come around every few days and supply you with the newest set of talking points? You're like dittoheads, just on the other end of the political spectrum.
"The initiation is as important as the conclusion. Many refer to the car chase, the machete, the so called assault, but what is just as important is the initation. We don't know what words were exchanged between Adam Deckard and Toto. We don't know why Toto drove off that night, and we don't know what caused Toto to so call assault the police. The initiation is just as imporant to the whole situation, because without that initial stop none of this would have occured."
I can't tell if you really think this, if you just haven't thought about it very much, or are just being disingenuous to make a political point. It's almost impossible to tell on the IMC website, since so many people here really do believe really dumb things, and so many other people are willing to be a little less than honest in order to try to win arguments. It doesn't really matter, though.
So let's get started. What I think you're saying is that, even if Kaiyewu HADN'T so-called assaulted the officer, tried to run over him with his so-called car, then fled from the so-called police, and finally attacked them with a so-called machete, he STILL would have gotten shot. Is that pretty much it?
OK, well, what the police allegedly did was pull over a black man for a questionable reason. THAT'S what caused Kaiyewu to get shot, not Kaiyewu's actions.
Since the consensus around here is that the police are as racist as the day is long, how many black men have been racially profiled and pulled over by the police in Douglas, Champaign, and Vermilion counties for no reason since Kaiyewu got shot? It's been over three months, so do you think a hundred? That seems pretty reasonable.
Now, if you think that Kaiyewu's actions had nothing to do with him getting shot that night, that means there have been one hundred police shootings in the tri-county area since Kaiyewu. Or, let's say Kaiyewu's actions are EQUALLY as important as the police's racial profiling. So, what would you estimate then? That HALF of those racially-profiled guys ended up getting shot? So around fifty police shootings since that night?
Which number is correct? Well, actually, the number of police shootings in this area since then appears to be zero. Which means that EITHER no police officers in these three counties have racially profiled any black men in the last quarter of a year (which would seem to mean that they're not very racist at all), or the reason Kaiyewu got shot was because of all those really, really bad decisions he made. Take your pick.
"No the officers did not know at the time that Toto was mentally ill, but trained officers might have. Trained officers might have actually considered that they were not dealing with a stable person and instead of trying to escalate the situation, would have found other means to deal with the event."
First off, what makes you think they were TRYING to escalate the situation? Do you have any evidence that they were trying to deliberately provoke him into pulling out a machete and trying to attack them? Or should I just put this into the already-bursting-at-the-seams file of baseless accusations against the police?
Anyway, they MIGHT have found other means to deal with the event. That's the idea, anyway. But I think the CIT trainer would probably be the first to admit, this stuff doesn't always work. Sometimes it does, it's true. But not always. Have you ever worked in a mental health facility or any type of crisis center? I have. And I know people who have done a truly remarkable job de-escalating situations where people were about to become violent. And I've witnessed situations where these SAME people, some of them with literal decades of experience in this field, have tried their best to keep someone from becoming violent, and just haven't been able to.
More importantly, it hardly seems fair to blame someone who HASN'T had that kind of experience and training for trying their best and failing. I'm sure you think you could have done a better job. You probably couldn't have. Sorry.
So yes, more training is a good idea. But let's not pretend that it's going to solve everything, just because Brian pointed it out.
But you're right. We DON'T know what the officer said to Kaiyewu. Which means it's entirely possible he handled it with perfect tact, doing just as well as any trained counselor. Kaiyewu might still have gone off, you know. Now, I don't know that he DID, and I certainly suspect he could have done better, but why do you assume he must have done something wrong?
"Obviously Toto did not do anything wrong in the convenient store, nor did he do anything wrong in the parking lot, or while driving."
Well, two out of three ain't bad, for an IMCbot. I agree he didn't do anything wrong at the convenience store or the parking lot, but it is actually against the law to just stop your car in the middle of a lane of traffic.
"What about keying in the license plate number to find out the owner of the vehicle; which would then lead to perhaps Toto or his parents, then notifying the parents to get a mental history or if not pulling records to find that out."
I thought this was pretty funny. First of all, does anyone even know if Illinois police have access to Texas vehicle registration information? They might, I don't know. It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't, though.
But let's suppose they did. So, the officer would track down the car to Kaiyewu's dad. Calls him up at 11:30 at night. Then asks him if his son has had any kind of psychiatric treatment. Now, if you've been following this case for awhile, you'd know that Kaiyewu's parents consistently denied that he had ever received any kind of psychiatric treatment, right up until the day his psychiatric records were released.
So, OK, Kaiyewu's dad tells him that, no, Toto has never been treated for any psychiatric problem. Fair enough. Guess that means he's just been smoking crack or something.
I also like your idea that they should have "pulled Kaiyewu's records" and read through that. I guess they should have just left Kaiyewu standing there in the cold all night, while they looked through the records of every mental health center in the country, until they found the one he saw in Sugarland, TX. Then, presumably, waited until the psychiatrist's office opened the next morning, then called down to the office, filled out the paperwork for release of his records, had them faxed to the police station, read through the whole thing, and THEN responded. Sure hope Toto doesn't go anywhere in all that time!
Or did you think that the police just automatically get copies of the files of people treated by psychiatrists? Things may have gotten bad in the United States, but that's seriously some 1984 stuff, right there.
"Also I am sure everyone is well aware that Mexico is a country. We are also aware that Mexicans are those who come from Mexico. I'm not sure why it was really relevant to talk down to others and act like nobody knew Mexico was a country."
I don't know if I was talking down to him. He didn't seem like he DID know that. He said that Deckard injected race into the discussion. I thought maybe he thought Mexico was a race, not a country.
I admit, though, I DID sort of talk down to him, in a way. I made a joke about him not knowing that it's against the law to try to hit a police officer. It was really just a joke, because I assumed everyone KNEW that, but I still felt bad about it afterwards. But, it turns out some people actually DON'T know it, as you show with your repeated phrase "so called assault". So I guess I wasn't condescending ENOUGH. It's hard to tell sometimes.
I mean, you could call his machete a "potato peeler", if that's your idea of a good time, but that doesn't change the fact that this particular potato peeler is two feet long and capable of taking someone's head off with a single stroke. And you don't have to call those two swings Kaiyewu takes at the cop "assault". You could call it a "hearty handshake", if you wanted. You could call it "Aunt Mary", if you were really desperate for something to do, but it doesn't change the fact that trying to hit a cop is illegal and a really, really bad idea.
"But in any case I would like to inform officers in IL, not all drivers with a TX license plate are Mexicans. Would the police tail a car from Washington state, thinking that the person might be Canadian? Would they tail a car with a CA license plate?"
Actually, they might very well do that. I know you don't know much about Villa Grove, but it's a really small town, out in the middle of nowhere. It's not on any major highways. So, really, it's not the kind of place you accidentally wind up in, if you don't have a reason to be there. The cops in this town know pretty much all the people in the town and their cars. So if they saw a guy from out of state, just hanging around in the parking lot of a gas station at eleven at night, it's going to raise suspicion. Not necessarily of anything in particular, and it's pretty certain that if the guy just explained to the officer what he was doing there, then that would solve that, and the guy would be on his way.
That's kind of what causes suspicion. When someone is doing something unusual and unexpected. If a police officer saw a white guy in a tuxedo, top hat and tails walking down the street at midnight in the grungiest, most dangerous part of a town, he's going to be suspicious of THAT too. Wouldn't you? What ordinary reason would he have for being there?
It's probably not worth pointing this out again, since nobody seemed to listen the dozen or so times I've mentioned it before, but it's kind of irrelevant anyway. The officer didn't "tail" him, as you put it. Kaiyewu pulled out IN FRONT of him, then drove for just a few seconds before stopping his car in the middle of the road. If that's "tailing" somebody, what do you suggest the officer should have done instead? Stopped his car when he saw Kaiyewu pulling out, then made a U-turn and gone off in the other direction? Good thinking!
"but to just find a car suspicious b/c of where the car is from and assume the race of the individual in the car does seem a little racist."
I really hoped I wasn't going to have to talk down to you...
Black--Race
Mexico--Country
"I'm not sure if the same thing would have happened in Chicago; if a car with a TX license plate would have been deemed suspicious because the cop thought they were Mexican."
Well, of course it wouldn't have. Chicago is an international destination. People from all over the world go there every day, for all kinds of perfectly legitimate reasons. Villa Grove, to put it mildly, is not exactly a major tourist or business destination. Unless you live there or are visiting family who lives there, what possible reason could you have for being there at eleven at night? And if you're visiting family there, then why aren't you spending time at their house, rather than hanging out in some grubby parking lot?
"There is something called
"There is something called Crisis Intervention Training that has been offered here in Champaign County a few times."
Actually, according to information provided by Champaign County's various police departments many officers have had this training. Champaign Police Department has numerous officers trained as CIT's.
"Training" vs "Policy" vs Reality
Good point about crisis intervention training. It does get done, I suppose. However, unless it is a departmental commitment to hold officers accountable for their mistakes, it will be nothing more than just "policy."
BTW, I've known a few cops and even have a number of relations who have been involved in law enforcement. I know it's a tough job, bad hours, even danger.
Thus, I also know that mistakes are made, sometimes even with sort of good intentions. Good cops know when it happens and eventually learn they shouldn't trust those among them who are F-ups. The problem comes when you, as an individual officer, don't feel the need to do better. When incidents such as this happen and no hard questions are asked, then it means that there's no need for the F-ups to do better. That's not good for good cops.
No one should be given a blanket amnesty, anytime for anything -- which seems to be the primary motivation for the critics of the IMC's coverage -- when so many questions are left lingering about what really happened that night.
Who do they think the police are, for instance, Dick Cheney?
I'm glad someone in this community has the courage to turn a less than adoring eye on law enforcement. Every occupation has a certain number within it who are a danger to those around them or to themselves. This gets sorted out in the normal course of things without too many getting hurt too badly. The bare facts of this case suggest that someone needs to review it other than the usual good 'ol boy network. There's plenty of evidence out there that the state police are no more clean than many other political institutions in Illinois. Get down to the local level and there is more wholesale violence and not so much cash or power.
It is a disservice to the citizens of Illinois to tolerate incomptetent, if not actually malevolent police officers. No one should fear that their epileptic brother, their diabetic cousin, their troubled sister or their friend with Tourette's syndrome find their friend or kin facing twelve cops who can't figure out some alternative ending. What Toto did wrong , he's responsible for. The same standard should apply to the officers. I don't see how anyone can credibly argue that this was the only way it could have ended.
Maybe what's really needed is for the police to say that they learned something from this that will prevent something similar from happening again -- or that they at least are considering something more than the rather hollow exhonoration offered by Vermilion County. No, that won't bring Toto back. But at least showing some caring that this unfortunately did happen seems appropriate, except that the ISP can't put one foot in front of the other without showing how little interest they have in convincing anyone except a few politicians that things are A-OK. Those who want to make it seem like nobody F-ed up are not doing the police involved any favors -- and they certainly are not doing the work that Illinois expects of law enforcement.
Oh, please.
"No one should be given a blanket amnesty, anytime for anything -- which seems to be the primary motivation for the critics of the IMC's coverage -- when so many questions are left lingering about what really happened that night."
No, nightwatch, I don't think they should be given a blanket amnesty. You seriously need to stop this kind of argument. It's just like your stupid comments about how people think the mentally ill should be sorted out at gunpoint... or worse. Nobody ever claimed that, and nobody ever claimed that the police should be given a blanket amnesty. What I have said (as I've pointed out several times) is that accusations against the police should be backed up by evidence. Just like everyone else.
Go ahead. Ask questions. Ask ALL the questions you like. Asking questions doesn't bother me. Assuming the answers, based on no evidence, is not the same thing.
Case in point. The only thing that's even CLOSE to evidence that this was a racial profiling case was Deckard's comments about Mexicans. Brian found out about this AFTER he called it a "racial profiling" case. He was making charges with no evidence. Racial profiling is a pretty serious charge, don't you agree? So it should probably be backed up by some pretty serious evidence before those kinds of accusations are made. You can't tell me that this was an honest or just thing to do.
Well, you CAN tell me that, and you probably will. After all, you're an IMCista. But most people would agree, it's not reasonable.
"Get down to the local level and there is more wholesale violence and not so much cash or power."
Oh yeah? So I guess that means that a lot of people get shot by the Villa Grove police then, right? Like, at least ten or twenty a year, right? When was the last one, before Kaiyewu?
"No one should fear that their epileptic brother, their diabetic cousin, their troubled sister or their friend with Tourette's syndrome find their friend or kin facing twelve cops who can't figure out some alternative ending."
Does your friend with Tourette's syndrome carry a machete in his car? How about your diabetic cousin? Has he sewn a sheath to a hunting knife in his jacket? No? Well, then I can give you about 99.999% odds that the police aren't going to shoot him.
Seriously, do you know how many people in Champaign alone have Tourette's? How about more serious illnesses like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder? Don't even get me started on how many people have diabetes. And WHAT, nightwatch, what percent of them get shot by the police? Like 0.01?
What do all these people suffering from all these illnesses, and yet SOMEHOW managing not to get shot, have in common? Are they just extraordinarily lucky? Have they all bought off the police? Were they, like Achilles, dipped into the river Styx, and made impervious to bullets?
Or is it just that they don't try to run over police officers, and then attack them with machetes?
We may never know.
"I don't see how anyone can credibly argue that this was the only way it could have ended."
OK, I'm arguing that. This is the only way it could have ended. Whether I believe it or not, I'm saying it. You know why? Because I've gotten incredibly tired of hearing your comments about how it would have been SO EASY to resolve this peacefully, but not coming up with a single suggestion as to how. I'd really like to hear your ideas.
So prove me wrong. I know you're not really into specifics, and prefer to flatly state that the police Fed up, without really stating how, but it's gotten old. You're just repeating yourself at this point. So go on, tell us. For starters, how would you apprehend a guy swinging a machete, without getting your carotid artery severed? That's really the root of all of this. You can't arrest a guy if you can't touch him, and if he's got a machete, you can't really get hear him without the risk of your own death. Maybe you'd sacrifice your own life to ensure that a poor, defenseless machete-weilder doesn't get hurt, but I'm pretty sure you're the only one.
Or maybe you would have hopped into a time machine, gone back a few months to the last time CIT training was offered, asked for time off, and taken the training. And then, well, just hope this is one of those cases where it works. It doesn't always, you know.
Or maybe you would have just let him go after he tried to run you over. No danger to anyone there!
"black-race Mexico-country" I
"black-race
Mexico-country"
I don't even get your put downs. They don't even make any sense.
Ok yes you are right, black is a race and yes Mexico is a country. You are correct. I'm glad you feel the need to make sure you understand that. But don't forget, black can also be a color. So minus one point for you.
The point...
The point is, people here are still claiming that this case was motivated by race. The only evidence they have for this is a comment where a police officer used the word "Mexicans".
As Mexico is a country, and not a race, there really isn't any evidence that it's about race.
See now?
My Conclusion
OK, now I get it. You are parodying what YOU THINK Brian is like? That's kind of lame. It's long outlived any usefulness it served to you scanty address of multiple facts that are worth raising about this "investigation."
Or is ity that you obviously don't like Brian. OK, I get that, too.
Or is it both, plus the fact that you don't want anyone to consider what role race played in this death?
Your defensiveness about race shows. As does your clumsy attempt to use what the VG officer said as a defense of the blatant racism he displayed.
I agree that your refusal to say that anything could be learned from this other than "Don't ever try anything like that again, Toto. Now everyone else move along, there's nothing to see here..." says all a fair minded needs to know about your own subjectivity.
Race-Colored Glasses: Seeing What’s There
by Sally Kohn
Even if it’s a fairly done deal that Judge Sotomayor will be confirmed to the Supreme Court, Republicans are explicitly using her nomination as a “teachable moment” (http://ninthjustice.nationaljournal.com/2009/06/conservative-groups-see-teachi.php) about the role of race in America. Yet Sotomayor, President Obama and the Democrats are trying their best to avoid talking about race rather than responding head on -- which only cedes this critical debate conservatives who justify racial bias under the guise of colorblindness. Instead of sidestepping the conversation on race and trying to change the topic, Democrats and progressives should challenge use this as our own teachable moment for ourselves and the nation. Instead of criticizing Judge Sotomayor for seeing race in America, we should be asking: Why don’t the rest of us?The area of the South Bronx where Sonia Sotomayor grew up, in the poorest urban county in the United States, is predominantly African American and Latino. In the Bronx, African American and Latino children are more likely to be arrested and tried as adults than White kids who commit the same acts, even though kids of color are ultimately found innocent at higher rates than White kids. The average household income is $29,000; a few miles away in mostly-White Manhattan, it’s $56,000. Only 16% of Bronx adults have gone to college; in Manhattan it’s 57%. Less than 20% of Bronx families own their home, one of the lowest homeownership rates in the country. In the 1990s, New York City unilaterally relocated sewage treatment facilities and waste transfer stations to the Hunts Point section of the Bronx. Rates of diabetes, heart disease and obesity are far greater in the South Bronx than in comparable, White communities.
Nationwide, 16% of White children go to sleep hungry. Among African American children, the rate is almost 42%. Studies show that African Americans and Latinos are less likely to be hired for a job than Whites and when they are hired, they’re paid less than White people doing the same work. The average White family has $88,651 in net worth. The average Latino family is worth only $7,932. African American families are worth only $5,998.
Statistics like these are evidence of the pernicious persistence of racial inequality in every aspect of our society. Racism in America is neither isolated nor aberrant, nor is it an invention to excuse what might be attributable to individuals or cultural behaviors. When Barack Obama ascends to the presidency, we White people often use his success as evidence that if other people of color simply tried, they too could succeed -- arguing that racism is a myth. We should draw the opposite, more accurate conclusion instead -- the fact that so many people of color are as talented and ambitious as President Obama but do not achieve his level of success is proof that other, systemic barriers must be in their way.
The first corporation established in the new, free market America was the slave trading Virginia Corporation. Thomas Jefferson, who wrote that “all men are created equal” and established the structures of our government, owned dozens of slaves. Private and parochial schools, and now vouchers, became popular as public schools became integrated. As the Black middle class grew and African American families bought homes in middle class urban neighborhoods, White families fled and created the suburbs. Private health insurance and private hospitals grew as funding was cut for public health systems that served mostly low-income people of color. Yet we pretend that each of these institutions has nothing to do with race and that the economic inequality or lack of democratic participation that plagues communities of color is mere coincidence, or even the fault of communities themselves, rather than the inevitable product of highly racialized design. Despite a national history that has been profoundly colored by color, which has compounded gulfs of privilege and inequality over generations, we have repeatedly bought the lie that race does not matter in America.
The very fact that Judge Sotomayor’s personal story of triumph, from the housing projects of the South Bronx to Princeton and Yale, to federal judge, seems so remarkable reveals our deep, hidden expectations of what is possible and probable for people of color in America.
There’s a reason we call judges judges. We expect them to also use their judgment. Judge Sotomayor’s judgment is indeed different because she is Latina, just as she is a different judge because she grew up poor, was a district attorney, was a trial judge, lives in a city. In a legal system designed to protect the powerless from the tyranny of the powerful, wouldn’t it be nice to have a judge who understands how the abuse of power can hurt communities? And wouldn’t it be nice to acknowledge the reality of race that is all around us rather than attacking those for seeing what is clearly there? A deep and personal experience of racial bias is far more valuable to our society — and our Supreme Court — than denial. And while confirming Judge Sotomayor to the Supreme Court is critical, arguably using this moment to teach about the continuing role of race in our society is equally as important.
Sally Kohn is Senior Campaign Strategist and Director at Movement Vision Lab, a project of the Center for Community Change.
Obama on Living While Black in America
From the NY Times The Caucus live-blogging Obama's July 22, 2009 press conference:
The Gates Incident | 9:02 p.m. From Peter Baker: This one from Lynn Sweet of the Chicago Sun-Times on the arrest of Henry Louis Gates, the Harvard professor, for disorderly conduct at his own home. Rather than ducking, Mr. Obama took it head on, noting that “I may be a little biased” because he is friends with Mr. Gates but condemning the police in Cambridge, Mass.
He said: “I think it’s fair to say, No. 1, any of us would be pretty angry. No. 2, the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. And No. 3, what I think we know separate and apart from this incident is there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by police disproportionately. That’s just a fact.”
He also employed the only humor of the night when he tried to picture himself in the same position. What if he were seen trying to force the door of his own home? “I guess this is my house now,” he said, “so it probably wouldn’t happen.” Then after a beat, he added jokingly: “Here I’d get shot.”
The Whimpering Right
I can just see it coming, the wailing, gnashing of teeth and whimpering from the conservative hive.
There's a lot of comments here that add up to "UC IMC is not covering the Kaiyewu story like the News-Gazette would!"
Yeah, that's the point.
For all the crypto-racism that's then denied by those making it, it looks to me more and more that IMC reporting is at least as much in the mainstream of our community's conversation about race in the United States as the dominant media. I'm sure that someone will be condemning Obama for his supposed radicalism. Get real, he's only saying from a point of view that a majority of Americans have been thinking for some time.
And since this is still a democracy, maybe some could put a little more effort into an introspective look at their own lives so they can be part of the solution, instead of simply continuing to be part of the problem?
Toto was a great person
Right now I've stopped caring who the police officers were, why it took so long to release ANYTHING about this, other than the fact that he allegedly swung a machete at them and they shot him, or why the authorities felt no need to inform the family of what they were "investigating."
The important thing is that this situation, whichever side of it you see, doesn't happen again. If you believe that Toto was a crazed criminal, start pushing better crime prevention plans to your police department, city council and congressman. If you believe that Toto was a great person and was either in the wrong place at the wrong time, or conspired against, push plans for police accountability and education, and better hiring practices for police departments.
I believe the latter. Toto would be behind either of these proposed action plans, though. I may not have seen him for 3 years before seeing him at his funeral, but I know that the man the police described was not Toto. He was a peace maker. He was a supporter, friend, classmate, teammate, son, brother and many other things, too. I do know that the man that was described by people that actually knew him, was much more accurate a picture of Toto. Friends from high school, fraternity brothers from college, and family members knew him the best, and nobody saw this coming.
I'm not so arrogant as to say that I know exactly what happened and why. But, I am arrogant enough to say that I know that that was not Toto in the police reports.
So, now, your options are:
Am I wrong and he's still a crazed criminal
Am I right and the police wrongfully murdered him.
Am I wrong, and the police still wrongfully murdered him.
Am I right, but something happened to Toto that nobody could ever know or understand, and the police had no choice.
For the first two, see my recommendations above.
For the third, combine those recommendation.
For the last, do those things anyways.
No matter what, though, stop sitting around and casting insults at others. Stop claiming you know what happened or believe so-and-so and that "someone" needs to do something. Because in all of those possibilities, Toto is dead. In no fashion can this turn out ok for anyone, regardless of personal opinion on the matter. A loved one is dead, many persons of power have been under less-than-desireable scrutiny, and criminal or justified, those officers took a life. In all of this, my prayers have been with, first and foremost, the Kaiyewu family. I still pray for Toto's soul and his guidance. And in all of this, I still pray for those officers and their families. I pray that the officers believed that they were forced to use deadly means. That they had no malice in their hearts upon commiting that act. That their loved ones receive no harm from outsiders because of this. That they are comforted in a time of need. That they come to learn and believe that Toto was a person of great faith, strength and love. That they don't close themselves off from the possibility that there were better ways to bring an end to any step of this tragedy, whether or not there were, because there is always room for error, but moreso, potential for bettering oneself in the face od adversity.
It has taken me a long time to be able to say any of this. It will take me an eternity to forget Toto, though. Too many bad things have been said about Toto, and everyone else involved, so I thought it was time for me to get my thoughts out there about ways to move forward from this.
Toto is my friend and my brother in Christ.
My love and prayers are with the Kaiyewu family.
Jason S.
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